seraiki is a main language of sindh valalley.it is an ancient language and major language of Pakistan but it has not been taken her status. it is reponsbility of seraiki graduate & post gradutes to aware the world and people about their mother language so that their language can achieve her status. it is also reponsibilty of these people that they talk, write in their motherlanguage so that the complex may be removed. ok good buy
nazir dhareja[b]

BAZMI wrote:
seraiki is a main language of sindh valalley.it is an ancient language and major language[b]

hey dude!

listen up.

the "ancient seraiki" was written in devnagri script and needless to say that the ancient religion has ceased to exist in that land, so just how you gonna promote that in islamic pakistan?



it was just my curiosity.

Dear Infidel,

Its good to see you around. There are few corrections to your assertion regarding Seraiki Script.

Ancient Ages: Before 5th Century.
Middle Ages (Medieval Age)5th Century to 15th Century.
Modern Age: 15th Century to Present day.

When we say "ancinet Seraiki" It means language spoken before or in 5th century. Where as Devanagri is not an ancient script , it has its origin in 12th century. In ancient time many languges like Sansikrat lacked written character emphasis during that period was on orality rather textuality. It is interesting to note that in ancinet ages India lacked written script . Writing came relatively late to India, introduced from the Middle East by traders around the 5th century BC. That is on the onset of Middle ages.

So There should be no doubt that ancient Seraiki was not written in Devanagri script. Devnagri remained defacto script of Sansikrat language. Later on it was adoppted to codify several other Languages like Punjabi, Sindhi and may be Seraiki although there is little evidence about it , primarily due to my ignorance.

Seraiki in medial ages was written in Landa or Linday script . The landa or clipped alphabet which was closely allied to the Takri of the Punjab hills was used and mostly by businessmen or Baniyas to mantain there "Wai" (Books of accounts). But this script was more often illegible and only person writing it was able to read it.

It was due to this inherent handicap of Landa script that The Gurmukhi alphabet was devised during the 16th century by Guru Nanak, the first Sikh guru, and popularised by Guru Angad, the second Sikh guru. It was modelled on the Landa alphabet.

There are evidences of Seraiki Being written in landa script. Seraiki was never written in Devanagri or Gurmukhi script . I am attaching here with a classical sample of Seraiki in Landa/ Linday Script.

Please also check this link for more information about Landa script.

http://www.ancientscripts.com/landa.html

Note : I couldnot understand your assertion and I m curious too about it"

"needless to say that the ancient religion has ceased to exist in that land, so just how you gonna promote that in islamic pakistan?"

and how you relate it to what is written by Bazmi , please explain and help me in whithering my confusion.

Regards

Farooq Abbas

Post edited by: fmiana, at: 2007/12/09 01:02

fmiana wrote:
"needless to say that the ancient religion has ceased to exist in that land, so just how you gonna promote that in islamic pakistan?"

and how you relate it to what is written by Bazmi , please explain and help me in whithering my confusion.


sure brother.

The religion, language and "cultural identity" are interconnected.

when joe blow of a certain group becomes Christian, he assumes a new identity. that is , new religion, and their language in which the religion is explained. These are completely different than his previous idntity. A generation or two later, he now claims to be the direct descendent of those europians yet he still has that south asian look on his face


when, thru out the history, millions of multanis were forcibly converted to islam, they changed their identity "almost" completely. New religion, new language, associated with that religion and for some converts, even their roots were arabic. In this case it is an arabic scripture (which was never a multani script or accepted by a majority of multanis, i.e. hindus)

I find it amusing when I see a pakistani who looks like a south asian, but claims to be descendant of an arab or a turk or babur (whose looks were more of a Mongol than a Caucasian).

So thats why I asked. Multani (Seraiki) can not be promoted thru different cultural identity, if it's roots were different.

I never heard the term seraiki in India but multani, where I was born and raised.

Thanx for that piece of ancient multani script, which I had never seen before. Truthfully, I could not read or understand that either though it looks very much similar to devnagri script.

I am just putting the reality across.

Dear Infidel,

1) You are right when u say u never heard term Seraiki for Multani language in India : where it is in dying stage. Seraiki is relatively new name , having its origin in 1960s.

Before that Seraiki was known with several names like Multani, Derawali, Riyasti, Jatki, Balochki, Jagdali, Landha , Dashti etc etc. Due to lack of common name Seraikis were never able to realize that they are a part of the largest group in Pakistan.

2) Seraiki never was an impotent languages , rather it is one of the richest languages of the world. Even though Multan served as foot mat for invaders for a millenium but Multani never ceased to be language of Street. However due to many reasons Seraiki never became official language , but those official languages ( Arabic and Persian) could never takefrom it its status of popular language. Who so ever reached Seraiki areas adopted Seraiki language , today u can seen many Pathan and Baloch tribes who speak Seraiki as first language.

When these invaders , who did not change their religion adopted Seraiki language who can one believe that converts adopted arabic or persian(Languages of invaders) as first language . Turks and Kurds , Serbs and Pathans , Balochs and Persians, Uzbeks and Tajiks all converted to Islam but non of these people changed their language they still speak their pre islamic/arab languages.

3) Seraiki didnt stop enriching itself even after of departure of its Hindu speakers , although it was Hindus who developed this language but inavders an intruders adopted this language and forgot theirs for good. In todays Pakistan Seraiki is the only languag which is producing more literature then any other language . Howevver due to lack of official patronage very little goes through the printing presses. Seraikis , most of the part are poor people so few books are printed by the poets or intellectuals but that doesnot mean Seraiki literature is not being produced.

4)It is quite amazing fact for me that Invaders have adopted the language of locals , where as Seraiki Hindus migrating to India have shunned this language and friends from India tell Seraiki is dying in India. This thought pushes me into ocean disillusionment , that, while for centuries under pressure from invaders and colonizers Seraikis never quit their language , then why after migration to India they stopped transmitting it to their kids.

5) Islamic extremism never was a threat to Seraiki laguage and it never will be .

Regards

farooq

Note: Whats your location? if you like we can talk on phone some time?

Post edited by: fmiana, at: 2007/12/10 06:54

fmiana wrote:
When these invaders , who did not change their religion adopted Seraiki language who can one believe that converts adopted arabic or persian(Languages of invaders) as first language

then why after migration to India they stopped transmitting it to their kids.

5) Islamic extremism never was a threat to Seraiki laguage and it never will be .

Regards

farooq

Note: Whats your location? if you like we can talk on phone some time?<br><br>Post edited by: fmiana, at: 2007/12/10 06:54

Hello Farooq:

I am in SE Miami. Let me know if you are near by or anywhere in US/Canada.

You have some fallacies I would like to correct.
Multani language is not extinct in India but has become 2nd language, mostly practiced at home. After all, it is the language of minority group in India.

Since the multani script sadly died centuries ago, there never will be any hope to get it any official status. Same is the case with Sindhi.

The new generation will always practice the language spoken by majority group when outside home. Look at the 2nd and 3rd generation south asians living in non south asian countries, they speak the local language to blend in to those different groups.

However, I may never be able to understand multani spoken by you because you guys have a heavy mix of arabic, turkic and other turanian languages which are alien to me. Multani spoken in India, repaired itself by absorbing its original Sanskritic derravative.

That exchange of information should be published in the form of booklet:

How many people in India speak Seraiki/Multani Language?
In what script they write their mother language and which other scripts they can read?
How many words have they taken from Sansikrit which are not used in Wasaib area? (A complete list should be given in the booklet if the number is small otherwise separate book)
How integration is possible?
Is there some literary people in Seraiki/Multani language in India?
And so and so

G. Raza

Dear Infidel.

Really nice to see ur reply. My fallacy , if any is based on update from Seraiki/Derawal/ Multani and Riyasti friends from India. With whom speaking is always a fun and matter of pleasure. The language they speak is the language prevalent in streets of Dera Ismail Khan, Multan and Bahawalpur. I could never judge if their language contains words from Sanskirit or any other language. I am attaching here with a writing by Jagdesh Chand Butra ,who is a Multani/Seraiki writer from India . When I read his writing I feel some one from my Mohallah wrote it . If you can understand what he writes then your surely will be able to understand me.


I am attaching below Seraiki composition of Jagdesh Chand Butra , he lives in New Dehli.

PERADHEE(Tracker,Detective)by Jagdesh Batra Navein Dilli
Ram Bakht panj sat saalan da hosi JaDaan Angrez,Hindustan koon lahoo
luhaan karenda,heinkoon taqseem ker tey valdaa Bartania vatum thia.Hoondey maa pio dangey fasaad ich qatal thhee Gaey.Ram Bakht hoon veley aprney mamey dey ghar ha.Kivanhein bach Gia.Bharat puJ Gia.Uthaen vaDa thia tey aprna pichooG bhul Gia.
Ram Bakht Jehrey veley jawan thhia,taan her koi hoondey kolhoon puchhda hi,"Toon pichhoon kithoon da hein?"
Hein sawaal da jawab labharn kitey, o hik peradhee kol Gia.Hoon zamaney peradhee Bahoon kam da banda honda haa.Kahein di Gaan manjh,uth Daachi chori thhi vanjey haa taan o unhaan dey peran de nisharn sunjaarn ke,dhor Dangar Gol ghinda hai.
Peradhee naal khair kalami ker ke Ram Bakht puchhia,"Saeen aa kia toon meikoon Dass saGden,mein pichoon kithoon da haan?" Peradhee Ram da swaal surn ke khil pia,aakharn laga,"Saeen meda kam Dangraan de perey sunjarnan ay,bandey de perey Bahoon lambey hoondin,kahein vele o dharti te per rakhdey te kahein veley asmaan te uD-de,kahein vele paarni ich tararn lag vende.Bande de peran di nishan dihi kararn kahein tareekh daan da kam hey,jind jivi, peradhee koon kia samajh,Africa de lok Amrika kion Gaey te kiven. Hindustani lok,Afrika,Europe Amrica de mulkhanich kion vanj vuthey,Turk Mangol Irani Afghan te Angrez Hindustan te kion kaher machendey rahe.Muhajir kion Kirachi vanj abaad thhaey....Sindh Vadi de wasdey rasdey Seraiki lok kivein aprney wasaib Multan koon chooR Dilli, Karnal Rohtak Hissar Sonipat Faridabad chaley Gaey? O saarey aprni maa boli bhul Gaey te rul Gaey."
Ram Bakht koon hik dam yaad aaya,hoonde waDkey Multan de han.Peradhee toon Multan da naan surn ke hoonkon pak thhi Gia ke o pichhoon Multan da rahwarn aala hey,Jithhaan Angrez de aawarn toon pehle Dewan Sawarn Mal da raJ hae.Hoon toon pehley Nawab Muzaffer Khan Multan soobe da hakim hae.Hoondey naan te MuzaffargaRh abad thia.Hoondi bhairn khan Bibi de naan te KhangaRh da shahar wasda pae.Tarikh dian kitabaan choon paRha hoonkon yaad aaya.
Multan te RaJa Harnakshp raJ karenda hae.Aprney aap koon Bhagwan saDawarn kitey,hoon riyaya te Bahoon zulm kitey.Hoondey aprney putr Parhalad hoonkon bhagwan manarn toon inkar kita taan putr koon azaab Dewarn kitey,zalim pio dozakh cha tapai.Anjaam kar Bhagwan khambey vichoon sursang da roop ghin ke Harnakshp koon maar Ditta, tey Prahalad Multan da raJa barn Gia.Multan da purarna naan Prahaladpuri haa, Jitha Narsangh BhaGwan da soney da mandar hae.Hoonkon yad aaya,pir fakir tey soofi sant sadiaan toon piram prem de garey mitti naal Multan koon usraindey rahe.
Peradhee aGoon kafi der toon chup Bethhey Ram Bakht koon hik surnia akhaarn yaad aaya"Jaen nahein Dithha Multann,o Hindu na Musilman"
Ram Bakht de Mohoon a dua nikhati,"Raba! hein totey zameen tey soofian da, bhaGtan da prem nagar.....Multan valda wasavein haa"

Farooq:

Let me take you back to a time, when the aryans had recently inhabited the land of multan. they all came thru Iran, who had settled there for centuries before marching towards India.

That was the time when the language of multan was pure aryan. that was the language which was derived from sanskrit. that language belonged to mine, yours and all other multani's anscestors.

Below is the proof for you or you can chck it out yourself at

http://www.ancientscripts.com/avestan.html

Due to the age of orally Avestan text, it facilitated the study of Iranian and Indic languages. In fact, the oldest Avestan is so similar to the oldest Sanskrit that you can translate text in one language to another by applying few phonological changes. Like so:

Purple is Avestan, Red is Sanskrit. The ə symbol represents the mid central vowel (schwa) like the "e"s in "taken".

təm amavantəm yazatəm
tam amavantam yajatam

surəm damohu scvistəm
suram dhamasu savistham

miθrəm yazai zaoθrabyo
mitram yajai hotrabhyah

The piece of script you pasted in your last thread is just a colloquial, dilluted over the centuries by every joe blow invaders.

You need to see the movie "Roots", where a black guy discovers his roots all the way to Africa, rather than modern day america where he had lived for three centuries. And from that day on, the american blacks prefer to be called africans, dress african and needless to say look african

However, you and I look differently at our culture. My culture, identity and pride belongs to Multani Aryan times